No Heater, Possible Air Lock?

[boffa]

Hi Guys, Mine is a 51 1.9TDI 115 Galaxy and it's at that age when things are beginning to go south. I recently had a problem with the coolant sensor which I replaced on bank holiday Monday. Whilst replacing it, I managed to break the plastic horseshoe clip that holds it in and with it being a bank holiday I was buggered for a replacement. The old Dunkirk spirit kicked in and I managed to make a clip from a sheet of plastic with the use of a stanley knife, put it all back together and everything was fine. Until today when, You guessed it, my oh so good idea went up the swanny resulting in the sensor popping out, dumping the coolant and leaving my mrs stuck on the side of a 3 lane A road with no hard shoulder during rush hour. I was feeling less than clever now but, I had purchased a new clip and "O" ring just in case my Heath Robinson approach failed. So I replaced the clip at the side of the road and got the wife on her way without too much trouble. So here is the problem. The temperature guage is rising higher than it's ever gone before, almost into the red, and the heater is not blowing any hot air even on a long run. The wife has told me that she stopped as soon as the stop light flashed on the dashboard, driving some 300 yards max. Is it possible I have some sort of air lock in the system and if so how do I remove it. Or could it be a blown head gasket even though the car is running fine apart from the heater not working and the erratic temp gauge. When I noticed the gauge getting towards the max, I pulled over and checked the coolant level which was fine. Then when I got where I was going (15 miles) I then checked it again before I left and the resovoir was nearly empty but there were no leaks underneath, so I topped it up thinking an air lock had worked it's way through and drove home. The problem re occured on the drive home and I tried to put the heater on thinking it may cool it all down if it was overheating but to my dismay it would only blow cold air. Any ideas? Will an air lock sort itself out overnight? I'm hoping it will as a blown head gasket certainly won't. Could it be a thermastat or water pump? any help will be appreciated.

Steve

[roy202]

Hi Guys, Mine is a 51 1.9TDI 115 Galaxy and it's at that age when things are beginning to go south. I recently had a problem with the coolant sensor which I replaced on bank holiday Monday. Whilst replacing it, I managed to break the plastic horseshoe clip that holds it in and with it being a bank holiday I was buggered for a replacement. The old Dunkirk spirit kicked in and I managed to make a clip from a sheet of plastic with the use of a stanley knife, put it all back together and everything was fine. Until today when, You guessed it, my oh so good idea went up the swanny resulting in the sensor popping out, dumping the coolant and leaving my mrs stuck on the side of a 3 lane A road with no hard shoulder during rush hour. I was feeling less than clever now but, I had purchased a new clip and "O" ring just in case my Heath Robinson approach failed. So I replaced the clip at the side of the road and got the wife on her way without too much trouble. So here is the problem. The temperature guage is rising higher than it's ever gone before, almost into the red, and the heater is not blowing any hot air even on a long run. The wife has told me that she stopped as soon as the stop light flashed on the dashboard, driving some 300 yards max. Is it possible I have some sort of air lock in the system and if so how do I remove it. Or could it be a blown head gasket even though the car is running fine apart from the heater not working and the erratic temp gauge. When I noticed the gauge getting towards the max, I pulled over and checked the coolant level which was fine. Then when I got where I was going (15 miles) I then checked it again before I left and the resovoir was nearly empty but there were no leaks underneath, so I topped it up thinking an air lock had worked it's way through and drove home. The problem re occured on the drive home and I tried to put the heater on thinking it may cool it all down if it was overheating but to my dismay it would only blow cold air. Any ideas? Will an air lock sort itself out overnight? I'm hoping it will as a blown head gasket certainly won't. Could it be a thermastat or water pump? any help will be appreciated.

Steve

ok i doubt it would be a thermostat or a water pump, chances are that "the mrs" has cooked the engine, mines very good at wrecking most cars i give her! if i was you i would drain the system and start again, i take it that the engine was cool when you put the water in as this could crack the head if it was still hot, anyway drain and refill the water system start it up and see what happens, make sure the water system builds up some presure but not excessive and that you dont loose any water, check the exhaust and make sure the water does not come out that way, check the oil for water and the water for oil, if the fan cuts in and out again without loosing any water then chances are its fine, if it doesnt i would be thinking of a head gasket (time to take to a garage) for a second opinion, ive never had a problem with air locks on galaxys,

[boffa]

Ok, so yesterday I call out the RAC to give me an opinion on what they think might be the problem. Firstly he thinks it's the over run pump and swears that by wiggling the connector to it he can feel the pump coming on while the engine is running. I am not so sure because when I did it, it felt like vibration, but what do I know. He then runs the engine up to normal running temp (90) and notices that the fan doesn't kick in (should it?) and also that the bottom rad hose is cooler than the top. He phones RAC's Ford technical who straight away tell him it's an air lock between the two heater systems? He tells me that the car needs to go into a main dealer to have the system put on some sort of vacuum pump to clear the air lock, any ideas from any of you? Should I put the car into the dealer and simply tell them the heater is not working or give them the full details of this saga. Has anyone heard of this vaccum pump at the main dealers or was the RAC man just trying to get out of doing anything. I have read posts on the over run pump and it seems feesible that that could be the problem, but knowing Frauds they will change it, if I mention that I think that is the problem.

[Mirez]

Ok, so yesterday I call out the RAC to give me an opinion on what they think might be the problem. Firstly he thinks it's the over run pump and swears that by wiggling the connector to it he can feel the pump coming on while the engine is running. I am not so sure because when I did it, it felt like vibration, but what do I know. He then runs the engine up to normal running temp (90) and notices that the fan doesn't kick in (should it?) and also that the bottom rad hose is cooler than the top. He phones RAC's Ford technical who straight away tell him it's an air lock between the two heater systems? He tells me that the car needs to go into a main dealer to have the system put on some sort of vacuum pump to clear the air lock, any ideas from any of you? Should I put the car into the dealer and simply tell them the heater is not working or give them the full details of this saga. Has anyone heard of this vaccum pump at the main dealers or was the RAC man just trying to get out of doing anything. I have read posts on the over run pump and it seems feesible that that could be the problem, but knowing Frauds they will change it, if I mention that I think that is the problem.

 

 

The overrun pump works all the time whilst the engine is running and runs for about 2 minutes after the engine is switchd off. You don't even need to start the engine to get it to work - simply put the ignition on and wait about 15 seconds - It should be very evident if its working as it'll be a humming noise and you'll easily feel it if the engines not running. Tapping it and wiggling it to get it to work would indicate that the brushes on the motor have worn out and either they or it needs to be replaced. That alone however won't cause your trouble, the pump is a secondary unit and could technically be compeatly dead without any obvious side effects in normal conditions (I'm sure there are a fair few on here that are! :lol: )

 

I wouldn't be overly concerned at this point with head gasket failure, It certainly sounds far more like an air lock - whilst a blown gasket could cause some of your symptoms it wouldn't cause you to loose cabin heating which is nearly always an air lock or blockage.

 

Simple things first, what you topping it up with? If you have nearly all water in the system and little coolent that won't be helping. First and most important thing to do would be a system drain and refill - set the cabin heater to hot then refill slowly - a trickle of water from a hose into the tank is preferable to filling it and letting it drain each time as it allows air to escape.

 

Vaccum pumping is a method used for air locks but I can't say I've heard of it in use on vehicles. Its been in use on central heating systems for some time but IMO the system isn't large enough to warrent such an approach.

[roy202]

Ok, so yesterday I call out the RAC to give me an opinion on what they think might be the problem. Firstly he thinks it's the over run pump and swears that by wiggling the connector to it he can feel the pump coming on while the engine is running. I am not so sure because when I did it, it felt like vibration, but what do I know. He then runs the engine up to normal running temp (90) and notices that the fan doesn't kick in (should it?) and also that the bottom rad hose is cooler than the top. He phones RAC's Ford technical who straight away tell him it's an air lock between the two heater systems? He tells me that the car needs to go into a main dealer to have the system put on some sort of vacuum pump to clear the air lock, any ideas from any of you? Should I put the car into the dealer and simply tell them the heater is not working or give them the full details of this saga. Has anyone heard of this vaccum pump at the main dealers or was the RAC man just trying to get out of doing anything. I have read posts on the over run pump and it seems feesible that that could be the problem, but knowing Frauds they will change it, if I mention that I think that is the problem.

i would only take to a main dealer as a last resort, a good back street garage will half the costs of a main dealer!

the problem is not likley to be the over run pump, also the bottom hose should be cooler than the top hose as it is putting the cooler water back in the engine to cool it, if the fan is not cutting in i would run a live to the fan to test it works , if it does then there may be a fault with the sensor or maybe you do have air behind the sensor as this would also stop it working, the best thing to do is drain the water system and refill with with the proper amount of coolent in it, have you recently put in radweld or anything simular as this stuff can cock up water flow?

[boffa]

I will try and get it into a garage tomorrow. The overheating problem has not gone away, and I'm concerned that I'm gonna get shafted by the garage changing parts they don't need too. The over run pump is not working as Mirez says, it should be running after the ignition is switched off, and there is silence now, where there was a whirling. I suppose the high temp reading could be from any of the following, Air lock, Themastat, Water pump or over run pump but I bet whichever it turns out to be will be the last one they change.

[roy202]

I will try and get it into a garage tomorrow. The overheating problem has not gone away, and I'm concerned that I'm gonna get shafted by the garage changing parts they don't need too. The over run pump is not working as Mirez says, it should be running after the ignition is switched off, and there is silence now, where there was a whirling. I suppose the high temp reading could be from any of the following, Air lock, Themastat, Water pump or over run pump but I bet whichever it turns out to be will be the last one they change.

good luck !

[gregers]

the after run pump can be mended by yourself,all the info on this is found in the faqs,they must be good coz even i managed to follow them and get mine working again.

[gregers]

the after run pump can be mended by yourself,all the info on this is found in the faqs,they must be good coz even i managed to follow them and get mine working again.

[boffa]

Cheers Guys, The car is in Frauds as we speak as my preferred "local garage" were to busy to fit me in until Monday. They just phoned to say that it looks like the problem is with the run on pump and quoted me

[boffa]

Well, the car is back and I'm

[mikej]

:P Holy sh1t you must have money to burn , i have had no run on pump for over a year on my galaxy and its made no difference whatsoever, heating or otherwise , i fixed it myself last week only because i was bored lol for the total cost of

[Mirez]

:P Holy sh1t you must have money to burn , i have had no run on pump for over a year on my galaxy and its made no difference whatsoever, heating or otherwise , i fixed it myself last week only because i was bored lol for the total cost of

[mikej]

Boffa firstly sorry for SHOUTING mate, but it really naffs me off when people get ripped off especially by Feckin Frauds of all people, you may have your own reasons for takeing it to them and i should really mind my own business. There is alot good advice on this forum and its saved me a shed full and to be honest i would listen to people on here before the bloody Ford muppets. I honestly believe your problem is an airlock or you have cooked it as said before, i don't believe forking out all that money will solve any of your issues based on my own experience but i wait to be corrected.

sorry bud

mike.... :P

Edited April 29, 2009 by mikej

[mikej]

Quote

What did they do in two hours? I've done 3 pumps now (all sourced from a local bosch dealer at

[boffa]

Ok Guys, I know I have been ripped off but I really had no choice. My local garage couldn't fit me in and I need the car for this Friday as I run an under 7 kids football team, and we have got a tournament at Butlins and some of the team are in my car. I work full time and the last thing I wanted was to try and tackle the job in the evening and not be able to get parts etc. My initial diagnosis was an air lock but people on this forum said that it was an almost unheard of occurence but never the less I still suspected it. Anyway it went into Fords because I didn't have the time during the day to sort out the severel possibilities and thought "The Experts" would sort it out. Wrong! After charging me an hour for diagnosis and an hour to remove and fit the pump you would think that would be the end of it once they had taken off the Dick Turpin masks. Not only that, they had the car from 11am on Monday and it wasn't ready until 5pm on Tuesday! I phoned them this morning and told them the car was still overheating and that I wasn't best pleased with them to which they agreed to "have another look" to see if there was anything they had missed (Like any other notes in my wallet) They agreed to do this gratis so my Mrs nursed the car there this morning. You Guys aren't gonna believe this but it took them 3 hours to diagnose the fact that the fans were not working despite me telling their fitter this on Monday. He said the car needs to get really hot for these to work even though I pointed out that the gauge was almost in the red and they still wern't working. So my Wife phones me and says they think they have found the problem, 2 new fans at

[mikej]

Have you put 12v across your existing fans to see if they work just to make sure its not a switch etc :P i could be wrong here and proberly am but i thought 1 fan was for the aircon and only kicked in when the aircon was on???? Edited April 29, 2009 by mikej

[boffa]

Have you put 12v across your existing fans to see if they work just to make sure its not a switch etc :P i could be wrong here and proberly am but i thought 1 fan was for the aircon and only kicked in when the aircon was on????

Yeah Mike, first thing I did before I removed them was to check to see if they worked. Strange that neither did but the nice man at the garage said one is a secondary fan and could of been u/s for a while.

[mikej]

Best of luck mate, hope you get it sorted...... :P

[boffa]

I have got 2 fans from a breakers as GSF's fans were the wrong type. All fitted and another problem seems to have arisen. As soon as the ignition is switched on, even from cold, the fans kick in. I'm thinking a relay? but if the fans were permenantly on thats probably why they are both burned out? The manual says that relay 18 is the engine cooling fan extended run so am I barking up the right tree? I can't see how you access the relays though, are they under the fuses, does it just unclip?

[boffa]

Well after the most hectic day the car got repaired on friday. I decided to bite the bullet and get the water pump and cam belt done, when on test driving the car on thursday night, it was still overheating. I frantically rung workshops and dealers at 8am and only Essex Ford could fit me in and try and get the car done by 1pm. So in it went in, and fair play to the dealer, they got it done by 1.30 and saved the day. So was it just bad luck that caused the water pump, over run pump, and both radiator fans to fail at the same time?

[sepulchrave]

Nope.

 

Bad build quality. :(

[big_kev]

So was it just bad luck that caused the water pump, over run pump, and both radiator fans to fail at the same time?

 

The run pump and radiators have probably been knackered for ages with little effect.

 

Most likely losing all the coolant killed the water pump which caused the overheating and upon inspection the other faults were noticed.